I have helped organise 3 endurance races in the US. One was with the Touring Car Racing Assoc. which was a 2 hour night time endurance race (ran this race myself the year before, 1st place in class). Another was the POC Tribute to Le Mans 4 hour race 2 hours Day and 2 hours Night (I have run that race 3 times too), the other was the NASA 25 hours of Thurderhill! I ran that race also and made it 22 hours before a Ferrari took us out of the race, we were in 2nd place in class and 5th overall at the time!
I will be looking for sponsors for the cars of course as well as crew! I will let everybody know when the cars are out and we can have a little BBQ or something!
Two Racecars stuck, NEED HELP!!
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PorscheRacer
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I understand the reasons why many drivers don’t want to do a long endurance race. If you are a top team you already spend $5K to $15K per race weekend! When I raced the 25 hours of Thunderhill we had to first figure out the finances to make sure we could run. Then we had to make decisions based on financial limitations not on speed. An easy example of this is tires. To be the fastest possible you run soft compound tires that last just long enough to last between fuel stops. On that car we ran the car had a 121 ltr Fuel cell which lasted 50min between stops (750 HP Turbo!). So quick accounting:
Good 1 hr long tires $495 X 4 = $1980 X 25 hours = $49500 of course we still need to add the two days of practice, qualifying etc.. say 10 more sets costing $19800 + $49500 = $69300
Race fuel 100 ltrs per hour, 25 hours plus 10 hours for qualifying and practice = 100 X 35 = 3500 ltrs costing $2/ltr = $7000
Crew food, uniforms, tools, spare parts, reserve money for when the engine&transmission blow up! Etc... This can be a big number too but you get the idea, lots of $$$$
Of course when we ran we used tires that lasted 4 hours a set and cost only $250 a tire which saved us a lot of money and reduced the boost on the engine from 2.0 BAR to 1.2 BAR which reduced the consumption enough to go 80 min between fuel stops. We had sponsors too but we still ended up spending about $20,000 to race the 25 hour race. Even a 2 or 4 hour race has a significant investment.
The other issue too is that because Costa Rica has only one track many of the cars are what we used to call in the USA 'Home town Heroes'. What was meant by that was that the cars were designed for the home track ONLY, gears, tuning, fuel tank size, aerodynamics and of course the driver is extremely familiar with the just that home track. When you offer a race out of Costa Rica the car is not just right, the driver is not comfortable etc... An endurance race is similar in that many of the cars have fuel tanks just big enough to finish a short sprint race and would have to pit often during an endurance race. Plus the drivers are not used to driving a race car for more than 30 minuets at a time.
One of the groups I used to run with had over 120 entrants for an average race weekend. The endurance races had 25 cars if they were lucky, and those were only 2-4 hour races! So they eventually just started with a full group and then most would stop after the sprint race time of 30 min and the rest would continue for 2 hours, funny but true!
I personally love endurance racing because to me it tends to equalize the field a bit. Sure the monster cars will sprint ahead but many or all will fall back as they break. I guess that is one of the reasons I love Porsches so much. They are very rarely the most HP or the fastest cars on the track, but given enough time they will out last the faster cars and remain consistently quick to win the race. The other reason is that to me racing is more that having a fast car or a fast driver, it is about strategy and planning and execution.
Enough long winded English for now!!!
Good 1 hr long tires $495 X 4 = $1980 X 25 hours = $49500 of course we still need to add the two days of practice, qualifying etc.. say 10 more sets costing $19800 + $49500 = $69300
Race fuel 100 ltrs per hour, 25 hours plus 10 hours for qualifying and practice = 100 X 35 = 3500 ltrs costing $2/ltr = $7000
Crew food, uniforms, tools, spare parts, reserve money for when the engine&transmission blow up! Etc... This can be a big number too but you get the idea, lots of $$$$
Of course when we ran we used tires that lasted 4 hours a set and cost only $250 a tire which saved us a lot of money and reduced the boost on the engine from 2.0 BAR to 1.2 BAR which reduced the consumption enough to go 80 min between fuel stops. We had sponsors too but we still ended up spending about $20,000 to race the 25 hour race. Even a 2 or 4 hour race has a significant investment.
The other issue too is that because Costa Rica has only one track many of the cars are what we used to call in the USA 'Home town Heroes'. What was meant by that was that the cars were designed for the home track ONLY, gears, tuning, fuel tank size, aerodynamics and of course the driver is extremely familiar with the just that home track. When you offer a race out of Costa Rica the car is not just right, the driver is not comfortable etc... An endurance race is similar in that many of the cars have fuel tanks just big enough to finish a short sprint race and would have to pit often during an endurance race. Plus the drivers are not used to driving a race car for more than 30 minuets at a time.
One of the groups I used to run with had over 120 entrants for an average race weekend. The endurance races had 25 cars if they were lucky, and those were only 2-4 hour races! So they eventually just started with a full group and then most would stop after the sprint race time of 30 min and the rest would continue for 2 hours, funny but true!
I personally love endurance racing because to me it tends to equalize the field a bit. Sure the monster cars will sprint ahead but many or all will fall back as they break. I guess that is one of the reasons I love Porsches so much. They are very rarely the most HP or the fastest cars on the track, but given enough time they will out last the faster cars and remain consistently quick to win the race. The other reason is that to me racing is more that having a fast car or a fast driver, it is about strategy and planning and execution.
Enough long winded English for now!!!
The driver´s I suspect of chickening out of a long race, shouldn´t have problems with finance, and even then cars are limited in tire count here, I suspect they would give them a allowance of 10 tires instead of 6 if they ever run three full hours.
Some of the drivers can´t even finish a one hour race, they go out on sprint pace and never ever make it to the finish, last year´s GT1 winner had the lead for less than 1/4 of the race, he won on pace and consistency not speed, taught everyone a lesson or two...
Some of the drivers can´t even finish a one hour race, they go out on sprint pace and never ever make it to the finish, last year´s GT1 winner had the lead for less than 1/4 of the race, he won on pace and consistency not speed, taught everyone a lesson or two...
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mclaren
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Mr Porscheracer... I read your woory... I will try to speak with a friend who´s or was the principal of the custom house sistem here in Costa Rica... And I´ll ask to him which is the most easier way to get out your race car from there...
Good Luck...
Sorry con zorrtios si existe algun error... pero la verdad usualmente no lo escribo... solo lo hablo...
Good Luck...
Sorry con zorrtios si existe algun error... pero la verdad usualmente no lo escribo... solo lo hablo...
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nighttraveler
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PorscheRacer
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I'm sorry I have been away for a bit. In my 'away' time I have been busy trying to get the car out (supposedly Monday), and carfully reading the rules. I look to be solidly in the GT1 class, I was hoping for GT2 where I think I will be more competitive.
When I add up all the numbers I end up with a 100# advantage on the Valverde Nissan which is nice but they will have a very high Horse Power advantage. I would much rather have the HP over the lbs!
They are also running a modern Sequential Transaxle which makes it very easy to drive. I will be running a very old but light magnesium manual transaxle which shifts like a truck more than a race car!
To get up to the weight the class requires I have to add 500#+ to the car!
I do have an advantage with aerdynamic speed on the straits (no roof to add drag), but those are very short here so it will not be worth very much.
It looks like I am going into a gun fight with a knife! I am rather used to racing with a dissadvantage so this will not be a new thing I guess.
I have considered other more complex and expensive options such as rebuilding the current engine and using a single or twin turbo set-up. I have made 1000HP before with this kind of engine! I would require some solid sponsorship for this option. This would also require a similar transaxle to Valverde's to take the power.
I have also looked at increasing the displacement from 3.6 to 3.8 ltrs which would add 10 to 20 HP and get me closer to the Nissan in HP but still at a large dissadvantage. This would be less investment than turbocharging but questionable if it will make much difference since the HP gain vs the higher weight required to run the larger engine might be a wash.
In whatever changes I make, a nice sequential transaxle would be a nice addition which would reduce the lap times and the workload not to mention the risk of failure of my current weak transaxle. The current transaxle was chosen since it would help keep the weight down in the car but with the CR rules I have to lose any weight savings we built the car for to get up to the class weight so the advantage is gone to run it.
The last thing is the driver, where I can promise to give my best, if not slightly too aggressive, driving. I have seen more than a few wins against superior cars due to the willingess to do a little more than the next guy to make a pass or go a little deeper before getting on the brakes. To me that's to best kind of win, comming from behind with a distinct dissadvantage but standing on the top step anyway when the champagne pops!
Whatever I do or dont do to the car will likely be AFTER I get the car back together from it's year in the rain in Heredia. Let's see what she can, or can't do against the Valverde Nissan, Ford Mustang, and Corvetts and then figure out where to go from there. All is fair in Love and Racing!!
P.S. Some pics of the Boxster during construction.....
When I add up all the numbers I end up with a 100# advantage on the Valverde Nissan which is nice but they will have a very high Horse Power advantage. I would much rather have the HP over the lbs!
They are also running a modern Sequential Transaxle which makes it very easy to drive. I will be running a very old but light magnesium manual transaxle which shifts like a truck more than a race car!
To get up to the weight the class requires I have to add 500#+ to the car!
I do have an advantage with aerdynamic speed on the straits (no roof to add drag), but those are very short here so it will not be worth very much.
It looks like I am going into a gun fight with a knife! I am rather used to racing with a dissadvantage so this will not be a new thing I guess.
I have considered other more complex and expensive options such as rebuilding the current engine and using a single or twin turbo set-up. I have made 1000HP before with this kind of engine! I would require some solid sponsorship for this option. This would also require a similar transaxle to Valverde's to take the power.
I have also looked at increasing the displacement from 3.6 to 3.8 ltrs which would add 10 to 20 HP and get me closer to the Nissan in HP but still at a large dissadvantage. This would be less investment than turbocharging but questionable if it will make much difference since the HP gain vs the higher weight required to run the larger engine might be a wash.
In whatever changes I make, a nice sequential transaxle would be a nice addition which would reduce the lap times and the workload not to mention the risk of failure of my current weak transaxle. The current transaxle was chosen since it would help keep the weight down in the car but with the CR rules I have to lose any weight savings we built the car for to get up to the class weight so the advantage is gone to run it.
The last thing is the driver, where I can promise to give my best, if not slightly too aggressive, driving. I have seen more than a few wins against superior cars due to the willingess to do a little more than the next guy to make a pass or go a little deeper before getting on the brakes. To me that's to best kind of win, comming from behind with a distinct dissadvantage but standing on the top step anyway when the champagne pops!
Whatever I do or dont do to the car will likely be AFTER I get the car back together from it's year in the rain in Heredia. Let's see what she can, or can't do against the Valverde Nissan, Ford Mustang, and Corvetts and then figure out where to go from there. All is fair in Love and Racing!!
P.S. Some pics of the Boxster during construction.....
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nighttraveler
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Nice hearing from you again! Glad you made progress in your proyect!
Well yes, as we all suspected the car is GT1 class, that, i guess, makes you run in disadvantage against the current GT1s because of the HP figures. Now, are you going to run this December at the 3 Horas? guess it's your only chance before next year to measure the competitivity of your car against the other cars in your class.
Well yes, as we all suspected the car is GT1 class, that, i guess, makes you run in disadvantage against the current GT1s because of the HP figures. Now, are you going to run this December at the 3 Horas? guess it's your only chance before next year to measure the competitivity of your car against the other cars in your class.
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PorscheRacer
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The Boxster will likely not run the three hours since it has been sitting in customs so long (in the rain) it needs to be completely rebuilt which will take a few months, then it will have to be tuned for this altitude on the dyno and then run several days on the track to 'dial in' the car. I think it would be pushing it a bit much.
Plus I will be offering the car to a charter sponsor (complete car) who may paint the car in thier colors of choice which may take a little time too. If anybody knows a company looking for an experienced team owner and driver running an exotic car in GT1 for marketing and advertising of thier brand and products thru sponsoship please send them my way. I am experienced in company promotion thru racing for over 15 years.
I am trying to meet with Mr. Pacheco from Promotor in the next few days to make my final decition on whether or not to bring my Porsche 944 which is ready to race in the 3 hours right now. The car was just completely built into a race car with: rebuilt engine, new suspention, new brakes, new paint, new cage, new fire system, new race seat etc.... It is ready to go. I am trying to run in the TS class with this car. This car has some sponsorship lined up but has plenty of valueble space for advertising at cometitive pricing for those interested in having thier name on the car without the high investment for GT1 cars. I will also offer the car for a charter sponsor if desired. I have onlt these really bad pics of the car but here you go.
Plus I will be offering the car to a charter sponsor (complete car) who may paint the car in thier colors of choice which may take a little time too. If anybody knows a company looking for an experienced team owner and driver running an exotic car in GT1 for marketing and advertising of thier brand and products thru sponsoship please send them my way. I am experienced in company promotion thru racing for over 15 years.
I am trying to meet with Mr. Pacheco from Promotor in the next few days to make my final decition on whether or not to bring my Porsche 944 which is ready to race in the 3 hours right now. The car was just completely built into a race car with: rebuilt engine, new suspention, new brakes, new paint, new cage, new fire system, new race seat etc.... It is ready to go. I am trying to run in the TS class with this car. This car has some sponsorship lined up but has plenty of valueble space for advertising at cometitive pricing for those interested in having thier name on the car without the high investment for GT1 cars. I will also offer the car for a charter sponsor if desired. I have onlt these really bad pics of the car but here you go.
Definately a nice piece of work.
What power are you making at the moment? Looks like a GO-KART to me with the body of. Is it somewhat of a middle engine car or is the weight completely on the back?
Here in Panama that car would be a GT-2, same in other places in Central America except Costa Rica.
That car would be a great piece when our racetrack is finished because it will race down here in the correct class for it.
Best Regards from Panama and good luck with it. If you ever what to bring it down here it is a simple not too expensive trip. Here that car is definately a class winner.
What power are you making at the moment? Looks like a GO-KART to me with the body of. Is it somewhat of a middle engine car or is the weight completely on the back?
Here in Panama that car would be a GT-2, same in other places in Central America except Costa Rica.
That car would be a great piece when our racetrack is finished because it will race down here in the correct class for it.
Best Regards from Panama and good luck with it. If you ever what to bring it down here it is a simple not too expensive trip. Here that car is definately a class winner.
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mclaren
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Impreza 007
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Don´t listen to Rafa-BR, we want you to race all your porsches here in Costa Rica!!! jeje :D
We don´t mind waiting until next year to see and specially listen to that porsche roaring down our racetrack
Those racers look great, wish you luck and hope to see you and both of your porsches burning rubber
We don´t mind waiting until next year to see and specially listen to that porsche roaring down our racetrack
Those racers look great, wish you luck and hope to see you and both of your porsches burning rubber
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mclaren
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mclaren
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GT4 escribió:Mc Laren, in order to continue with this particular point and so that our Porscheracer understand, whch class will this car stand for in our Country. Ive never seen any roofless car in Guacima, so I dont know if the regulations appoint anything in particular on this matter.
for original chasis, CRs regulations (2005-GT) does NOT allow roofless cars , the original shell must remain the same as the original car that the competition car represents (lateral, frontal, rear+roof structure) , but I don´t know if the new 2006 regulations will consider any changes to this matter. TUBULAR chasis may have an exception on this but the document is not clear enough to me on this matter.
SEVERAL exceptions to this Technic Regulations Document have already been done with the approval of the Tech.Comission, so perhaps they could consider to analyze where do this car could be allowed for the next races.
More situations concerning to suspension, brakes, engine, etc could be a subject of restrictions, but it'd be neccessary to analyse the car with regulations doc in hands, as well to help PorscheRacer to know in wich category the car could race, it seems GT1 ...
Attached is CRs 2005 Technnical Regulations Doc FYI
.
Última edición por mclaren el 27 Oct 2005 18:44, editado 1 vez en total.
The shell (monocoque) must remain intact for those cars wishing to be classified as original-chasis cars, ie Larsson´s A3, Porsche 911 GT3, etc.
The Boxster is a tube-frame chassis, it is only required to look like the street version, this one certainly does, meaning ut can run without a roof.
Even if it were a complete monocoque car, it could run without a roof since it doesn´t have one in the first place.
The Boxster is a tube-frame chassis, it is only required to look like the street version, this one certainly does, meaning ut can run without a roof.
Even if it were a complete monocoque car, it could run without a roof since it doesn´t have one in the first place.
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PorscheRacer
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Wow this thread is getting long! I'm glad you guys are putting up with my endless Racing BLA BLA BLA!
The letter of the law or the black and white of the rules places the Boxster in GT1 and the 944 in GT2! Perhaps the meeting I have with Gustavo Pacheco (Promotor) will open up some more clarity in the rules for my two cars to compete where they will be most competitive and to provide the best show for the fans and the sponsors. After all racing is more than the car, the driver, and the track. What would racing be without the fans? OK, OK I would still strap in for a thrill ride but certainly not as fun as hearing the fans scream when you make that crazy pass in that really bad spot on the race track and barely squeak by! I love putting on a show for the fans!
In the USA, Europe and it would seem most other Central American Countries, the Boxster is a GT2 car. I think with some concessions on my part with weight or other items to keep the Boxster fair with the rest of the GT2 class it might be able to run there.
The 944 looks to be in GT2 which is simply not going to work since with 150 HP (on a really good day mind you) it would be a good moving pylon for the rest of the GT field. This car is ecentially the same type of car as the Yaris cup cars. It has a stock engine, transmission, body, and suspention type. All you can do is change the shocks and springs, remove the interior, and add the safety items. Thats it! This car should be a TS car but the engine at 2.49 ltrs makes it too large to run TS. The problem is that most Touring Car groups arround the world go to no less than 2.2 ltrs but most go to 2.6 ltrs and 3.0 ltrs and simply even the field with weight and restrictors if nessesary. TS in Costa Rica is a fun group but look at all the cars we are missing that could be running: BMW 323, 325, Z3, Audi's, Alfa's, Subaru's, Porsche 944 2.5 and 2.7 ltr, early 911 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, SAAB's, etc... Just the BMWs here in Costa Rica would die to be able to run (there are so many here). But right now they would not have a chance against a 3.8 ltr GT3RS Porsche or a Turbo 2.23 ltr car making 400HP-500HP! The rules are set-up right now to equalise the field based on a HP to weight factor. I will be bringing the rules for a similar racing series I helped to organsize to my meeting on Monday that adds another multiplier which further evens the field allowing for a wider range of engine sizes to be run equally. I hope to find a way to run the 944 in TS because if I can I WILL RUN IN THE THREE HOURS RACE!! As is the norm more pics for my vault! One of these days I will do a website and put up some video of going up tp 190+ MPH at night on the race track for 4 hours with just two drivers!
The letter of the law or the black and white of the rules places the Boxster in GT1 and the 944 in GT2! Perhaps the meeting I have with Gustavo Pacheco (Promotor) will open up some more clarity in the rules for my two cars to compete where they will be most competitive and to provide the best show for the fans and the sponsors. After all racing is more than the car, the driver, and the track. What would racing be without the fans? OK, OK I would still strap in for a thrill ride but certainly not as fun as hearing the fans scream when you make that crazy pass in that really bad spot on the race track and barely squeak by! I love putting on a show for the fans!
In the USA, Europe and it would seem most other Central American Countries, the Boxster is a GT2 car. I think with some concessions on my part with weight or other items to keep the Boxster fair with the rest of the GT2 class it might be able to run there.
The 944 looks to be in GT2 which is simply not going to work since with 150 HP (on a really good day mind you) it would be a good moving pylon for the rest of the GT field. This car is ecentially the same type of car as the Yaris cup cars. It has a stock engine, transmission, body, and suspention type. All you can do is change the shocks and springs, remove the interior, and add the safety items. Thats it! This car should be a TS car but the engine at 2.49 ltrs makes it too large to run TS. The problem is that most Touring Car groups arround the world go to no less than 2.2 ltrs but most go to 2.6 ltrs and 3.0 ltrs and simply even the field with weight and restrictors if nessesary. TS in Costa Rica is a fun group but look at all the cars we are missing that could be running: BMW 323, 325, Z3, Audi's, Alfa's, Subaru's, Porsche 944 2.5 and 2.7 ltr, early 911 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, SAAB's, etc... Just the BMWs here in Costa Rica would die to be able to run (there are so many here). But right now they would not have a chance against a 3.8 ltr GT3RS Porsche or a Turbo 2.23 ltr car making 400HP-500HP! The rules are set-up right now to equalise the field based on a HP to weight factor. I will be bringing the rules for a similar racing series I helped to organsize to my meeting on Monday that adds another multiplier which further evens the field allowing for a wider range of engine sizes to be run equally. I hope to find a way to run the 944 in TS because if I can I WILL RUN IN THE THREE HOURS RACE!! As is the norm more pics for my vault! One of these days I will do a website and put up some video of going up tp 190+ MPH at night on the race track for 4 hours with just two drivers!
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PorscheRacer
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Note to self - Picture descriptions are not intended to be stories!! Here is what I wrote in the above pictures:
I wonder what we should do with all these stock Porsche turbochargers we have laying around!?!? Exactly 10 hours later one of my employee's car, a 67' El Camino 5.9 ltr V8 became a Twin turbo V8!! Yes the exhaust is shooting up and yes it had 2 meter long flames on boost and yes is bew up like a hydrogen bomb a few days later during a drag race!! :D
Great story here. This red car is a 86' 944 Turbo. We got the car from a wrecking yard for a cheap price because it was not running. Turned out to be a blown headgasket. On a Wendsday before a three day race weekend (Friday, Sat and Sun) we had no car to work on since our only customer going to that race pulled out. One of the guys said 'Why dont we run that new red car?' followed by a group 'HA Ha Ha' followed by 'Hmmmmm I wonder if we could?'. 48 hours later we were pulling into the track 1 hour before the first session on the track with no sleep for 2 days! By the end of the weekend we won the class and took home the trophy and sold the car the next day for a good price to the guy who came in fourth place! Classic!
I wonder what we should do with all these stock Porsche turbochargers we have laying around!?!? Exactly 10 hours later one of my employee's car, a 67' El Camino 5.9 ltr V8 became a Twin turbo V8!! Yes the exhaust is shooting up and yes it had 2 meter long flames on boost and yes is bew up like a hydrogen bomb a few days later during a drag race!! :D
Great story here. This red car is a 86' 944 Turbo. We got the car from a wrecking yard for a cheap price because it was not running. Turned out to be a blown headgasket. On a Wendsday before a three day race weekend (Friday, Sat and Sun) we had no car to work on since our only customer going to that race pulled out. One of the guys said 'Why dont we run that new red car?' followed by a group 'HA Ha Ha' followed by 'Hmmmmm I wonder if we could?'. 48 hours later we were pulling into the track 1 hour before the first session on the track with no sleep for 2 days! By the end of the weekend we won the class and took home the trophy and sold the car the next day for a good price to the guy who came in fourth place! Classic!
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PorscheRacer
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Just a little update....The Boxster will be running in GT2. This is based on the new rules for 2006 (effective Dec 11th??) which no longer require cars to move classes based on thier construction type but simply add weight. This is a big relief since the car is well suited to run GT2 NOT GT1. The other news with this car is that if we get the car out of customs soon we will do our best to run in the 3 hours! This is a long shot but possible if everything falls into place. Wish us a lot of luck!
The other car, my Porsche 944 is still as of yet undecided. There are some rules changes being discussed which might create a place for this car and for cars like the BMW 323/325, Honda 2.2 cars and others. These cars currently can't run competivly anywhere since TS is limited to 2000cc and so is GT3 so the only place for a 2001cc+ to run is GT2! Can you imagine a BMW 323 or Honda 2.2 running against a Porsche GT3RS or my Boxster! It is my firm belief that like the rest of the world that TS and GT3 classes should go to 2.5 or even to 2.7 to open up the competition to more cars which is better for everybody. The bigger the engine and HP the more weight you carry. It usually works out pretty well too since 944s are 2600+ lbs anyway and so are BMW 323s. There should be a decition next week some time. As I said before, this car is ready to run and if it has a class for it, I will bring her down and run her in December.
The other car, my Porsche 944 is still as of yet undecided. There are some rules changes being discussed which might create a place for this car and for cars like the BMW 323/325, Honda 2.2 cars and others. These cars currently can't run competivly anywhere since TS is limited to 2000cc and so is GT3 so the only place for a 2001cc+ to run is GT2! Can you imagine a BMW 323 or Honda 2.2 running against a Porsche GT3RS or my Boxster! It is my firm belief that like the rest of the world that TS and GT3 classes should go to 2.5 or even to 2.7 to open up the competition to more cars which is better for everybody. The bigger the engine and HP the more weight you carry. It usually works out pretty well too since 944s are 2600+ lbs anyway and so are BMW 323s. There should be a decition next week some time. As I said before, this car is ready to run and if it has a class for it, I will bring her down and run her in December.